NPR's Scott Simon talks with former NPR host Michele Norris, whose grandma worked as a traveling Aunt Jemima, about the retirement of the character.

SCOTT SIMON, HOST:

When Quaker Oats announced this week that it is retiring Aunt Jemima as a brand image, realizing it's racist after 130 years, Michele Norris had a unique and complicated reaction.

And what I learned is that when my grandmother did this work and that many of the other women who did this work - that they were not allowed to wear street clothing - they may have wanted to show up and dress quite nicely for these pancake demonstrations.

And when they would go into these towns, they knew that in many cases, they were going into small towns where people had not seen Black women before.

SIMON: Michele Norris, our colleague for many years, a columnist, talking about her grandmother Ione Brown.